Well, I had mentioned yesterday that I was surprised that we hadn’t seen more deaths in the final season so far. I think it’s safe to say that Lost caught up on the death tally with this installment. Sayid? Blown up. Sun and Jin? Drowned. Lapidus? Collateral damage (unfortunately). Honestly, there was so much shock value in this episode that I think some of the emotional impact was deadened, at least for me.
As morbid as it sounds, it was a nice ending for Jin and Sun. As much as the sensible person in me wanted Sun to make Jin go for the sake of their daughter, I think it was fitting for them to stay together. I think they both realized that the chances of them leaving the island, even if they both made it off the sub, was pretty slim. After all, they have the heavily armed Widmore who wants them dead, and the supernatural, nigh invincible smoke monster who also wants them dead.
As far as Sayid has fallen this season, it was nice to see him sacrifice himself, ending his arc with at least a little bit of redemption. Desmond clearly worked some powerful mojo on Sayid at the well. I thought that he was pretty far gone, but Des brought him back. It’s not really a shocker that he didn’t kill Desmond, but it was still nice to have it confirmed. I’m wondering how much Desmond told to Sayid about his plan and motivations. It seemed like Sayid had some inside info.
And then there is the battle for most stupid survivor. As Sawyer and Jack go head to head, I have to put Sawyer in the lead. Sure, Jack was being a dolt when he was convinced that the C4 wasn’t going to do anything. At least Sawyer was smart enough to dismiss Jack’s misplaced faith in the island. Sawyer takes the cake, though, at being effortlessly manipulated by Smokey to do exactly what he wanted to do. Sawyer thought he was being smarter than everyone else, double crossing Locke, cutting deals with Widmore, and it turns out that he’s the biggest patsy of them all. Jack’s crazy idea may have gotten Juliet killed, but if you ask me Sawyer has Jin, Sun, Frank, and Sayid’s blood on his hands (and possibly Kate’s).
There are some new questions after tonight’s events too. Does Smokey even want to leave the island? Was that all just a con to get the candidates together so that he could kill them all? To what end? I have to believe that he still wants off the island. It has been drilled into the audience so many times this season. Richard’s dead wife, Jacob’s speeches, comments from Ilana — they’ve all said that it would be dire if he got off the island. Until we learn otherwise, I’m still banking on that being his main motivation, and frankly, I’ll be a little peeved if it’s not. My best guess is that he can’t leave as long as any of the candidates are still alive. That doesn’t bode well for Hurley, Sawyer, or Jack. One thing is clear: Smokey’s pissed.
Did we get a clearer picture of Widmore’s motivations in this episode too? He placed explosives on the plane, most likely knowing full well that the candidates would be joining Locke on the jet. I think that he wanted all of them in the same place so that he could kill them all, removing any possible competition for the leadership of the island. I think that he wants the power that the island can offer, and he wants it all for himself. That means getting rid of the candidates as well as the smoke monster.
Finally, there is the sideways world, lingering there in the background. How is it all going to play out? Regardless of how I felt before, with half the cast dead now, one can’t really argue that the sideways world is not the more preferable outcome for the characters. So… will the original timeline be wiped out, leaving the sideways reality as the only reality? Time will tell.
How are you feeling after this episode? Shocked? Sad? Glad that the season is back on track?
Clacked by Bob Degon
on May 04, 2010 @ 22:29 EST5EDT
Maybe the candidates are the combo to WTFocke’s freedom? If they die he is free. Well 1 number down along with a zombie, the number’s love, and a wisecracking pilot who was killed in a sight gag (Really you killed Lapidus with a f–king door?! Are you serious?). Few more to go. Maybe the show ends with them all dead and WTFocke free. And by free I mean he is sent to the alt universe.
“Sure, Jack was being a dolt when he was convinced that the C4 wasn’t going to do anything. At least Sawyer was smart enough to dismiss Jack’s misplaced faith in the island.”
Still trying to take jabs at Jack, huh?
Jack’s point wasn’t that the C4 wouldn’t do anything. It was that it wouldn’t do anything unless they messed with it, and unfortunately Sawyer’s actions prevented the first part of that theory from being verified. Jack made a point:
– Smokey already had them all together. If he could kill them he would have done it before, plain and simple, rather than going through all the subterfuge and manipulations with the bomb and submarine.
The suggested point of the bomb and the timer was to get THEM to do something stupid that would lead directly to all their deaths. Until they messed with the wires the ticking bomb was still something Smokey had done, and it’s possible that if the proposed ‘Smokey can’t kill them’ rule held that would have prevented the bomb from detonating when the counter went down.
I know you don’t like Jack, but this is really Sawyer’s screw up and a major con pulled on the conman.
I agree with you, I don’t think anything would’ve happened if Sawyer didn’t touch the bomb. I thought Jack was pretty awesome in both timelines tonight
I was going to say the same thing – Jack was saying that as long as they didn’t mess with the bomb, it wouldn’t kill them because the only way for them to die is to kill each other. The smoke monster can’t kill the candidates directly, and the candidates can’t commit suicide. (Didn’t Richard demonstrate this in a previous episode?) Sawyer pulled out the wires, enabling the bomb to go off and cause the sub to sink. So Jin, Sun, Frank, and Sayid were all technically killed by Sawyer, which stays within the rules of this “game.”
+1 to saying the same thing. Jack is the Man of Faith that Locke used to be (as emphasized by their reversed roles in the parallel timeline).
Everyone may be right that Sawyer tampering with the bomb caused it to go off, but I my line of thinking was that it wasn’t Smokey’s C4, it was Widmores, which is why it could go off and kill them. I dunno. Doesn’t seem like a hugely important detail. At the end of the day, Sawyer still wins the moron olympics for the time being.
“…my line of thinking was that it wasn’t Smokey’s C4, it was Widmores, which is why it could go off and kill them.”
Yeah, but by that same line of thinking, Smokey could have just shot them all because I’m pretty sure he neither made nor really owns the guns he’s using.
While the C4 was Widmore’s, the rigging of it to explode with the timer (the watch he stole off of one of the goons he killed near the plane) was Smokey’s doing.
*POST AUTHOR*
*shrug* I didn’t say it was a GOOD line of thinking… Like I said, not an important detail in my mind.
I completely forgot Lapidus was killed! So many deaths so little time! This is how BSG should have went out. I hope Kate dies but i doubt they will do that, they need a female main character to live until at least the finale episode.
So why did smokey-Locke disarm the C4 in the plane, when he could have just waited for everyone to climb on board and someone attempt to start the plane — wouldn’t that have been by their own doing as well?
I’m not sure, but Smokey needed an excuse not to be on the plane with them so he wouldn’t get blown up too. He couldn’t lead them to the plane and then say, “On second thought, I’ll just stay here. You guys go ahead.” But I don’t know what he was planning to do if there hadn’t been C4 on the plane. Wait … do we know for sure that Widmore planted the C4? I can’t remember. But this whole thing would make more sense to me if Smokey was the one who planted the C4 (with the end game being to get them on the sub).
Maybe he figured he would have a better chance of trapping Jack (and friends too) on the sub? Tell one of Widmore’s minions (if you can subscribe to my theory for a moment that they are in cahoots) to peg Kate, and now you have a reason for Jack to get on the sub. Then again, my notion does not explain Widmore bringing Desmond to the island. Hmm, maybe I am wrong, but I have trouble with the idea that there’s 3 factions against Smokey, and I wanted just 2 sides to make it easy. Oh LOST!!!!!! You make me crazy!
What if Widmore is working with Smokey. Widmore and Smokey vs. Candidates and Ben/Richard….? Is that stupid…?
All Desmond had to do to Saydid was call him brother with his swell accent and Sayid melted. I don’t like the way they used Sayid this season, he was such a great character.
I considered the same possibility, but sort of convinced myself that it couldn’t be. Widmore has done a little too much, in my opinion, to try to stop Smokey for it to all be an act. All the pylons, the experiments, bringing Desmond to the island, attacking Smokey with missiles…. I think I would feel cheated if he were working with Smokey… I dunno.
Wow, this episode. I was moved to tears for the second time this season – something about the big man breaking down at the loss of Jin and Sun at the end (when he never has before) drove the emotional point home for me. Sawyer really screwed the pooch on this one.
Frank Lapidus died, as I feared he would for several episodes in a row. At least he got the fitting “aw, hell” before he went. In the end his character was pretty much pointless (other than to serve as the mouthpiece of the audience), but I liked him just the same.
Let’s not forget that Richard, Miles, and Ben are still out there and still planning to blow up that plane. And Richard may or may not be immortal (now that Jacob is dead).
Smokey managed to take out half the remaining candidates (I still maintain that Jin & Sun counted as one together) with his ploy, but he needs them all dead before he can leave, and he can sense that they’re not dead – this is a pretty dramatic reveal considering he’s been saying he wants to leave with them this whole time. Kudos to Jack for figuring out that Smokey can’t kill them directly. He seems to be keeping Claire around so that she can finish off the candidates for him – somehow I doubt she’ll be willing. And next week we finally get the Jacob/Man in Black backstory, followed by the final 3 hours where they wrap up the action and tie in the alternate timeline. I can’t wait to see how it all comes together.
It would seem that Jacob is not dead, somehow he’s growing back to existence (those boys running around) he just needs a body now.
I suppose you’re right; I’d forgotten about them. I guess they represent the spirit of Jacob… Reminding Smokey that he couldn’t kill them? But now Smokey looks like he’s going to try anyway. We’ll see what happens.
Wait, so Frank died? Just because he got hit by the door?
This episode surely does solidify in my mind that the stupid Sun forgetting English storyline was rather pointless…. Right??
The thick metal door exploded off its hinges from the water pressure and hit Frank in the head. He was prolly dead before he hit the ground (and if not, the drowning finished him off).
I guess i just missed the details of the scene. Saw him take the shot, but figured if they wanted to make sure, they could have had Hurley/Kate or Jack pause long enough to see his body or something. Easy extra shot to confirm.
Yup the Sun forgetting English was a waste of our time basically. I thought it might be elaborated on with the couple reunited and maybe it would be the key to figuring out which was the candidate, but they are dead now so it doesn’t matter.
And I already commented on how dumb killing Lapidus like that was.
I didn’t see Lapidus drown either. Problem is: he’s not really a main character so he might just have died. But I’m with you – until I have proof he’s dead, he isn’t. Just like back then when with Jin. Unless I see it, it didn’t happen.
From my point of view the whole episode was more filler. In germany we call this “Salamitaktik”. You know, like cutting parts off a Salami. Slowly.
I’m with Keith on this – why did Locke need them to go on the Sub? Why not explode them on the plane? He said they just had to flip a switch on the plane, on the Sub Sawyer pulled the wires. And why the f*** did it result in the clock running faster? Since when is a regular watch working that way?
I’m really sorry but this is all so extremely boring to me. The crying at the end to me seems almost comical. Sun and Jin die – and half a second later we see Jin walk past Locke in the new timeline. Watching the old timeline is like watching a really really boring game of chess at the moment where you don’t know what’s going on in the minds of the players AND you don’t know the rules.
If you don’t understand what I mean I suggest you guys over in the US watch an hour of Soccer without understanding the offside rule ;-)
If the clock was counting down by Smokey’s hand presumably it would not have gone off, when Sawyer tampered with it, their deaths would have been by Sawyer’s hand. The clock running faster was just a result of the tampering. (My guess) The switch off the plane that blows it up would not have worked if Smokey triggered it. (Remember he took that watch for a reason)
If memory serves, you’re pretty hard on the ending of shows, let’s just wait and see ;)
Nah this is simply too slow. It should go faster. It feels drawn out. I think there’s a happy ending for all of these people in the new timeline and what is really missing here is the friggin _urgency_ for someone to do _something_ on the old timeline so that the new timeline can survive. I mean even if everybody on the island dies right now why would I give a rat’s ass? They are all alive in the new timeline which I always thought to be the _right_ timeline compared to everybody else. Well maybe except Adam :-)
Hehe look at me. I’m a believer ;-)
Wow, I can’t believe I have even more to say about this episode!
Jin and Sun’s death reminded me of Titanic… anyone else?
Regarding Frank – the only reason he was around was to give them a believable chance of getting off the island on that plane. Because what good is a plane without a pilot? As soon as they gave up on the plane, Frank was no longer needed. Cue the flying door of death.
Um, the crying at the end… Jack’s was fairly believable. Hurley’s made me laugh.
It reminded me of The Abyss.
I will admit I felt nothing over the crying. Still mad at Sun for leaving her daughter. Not in a million years would I leave a child.
See, I don’t see it as leaving her child. It’s not like she went to, say, Eloise and said, “Hey, can you watch my tyke?” The grandmother is family, and she was trying to put her whole family back together.
I don’t think she went there expecting to die and orphan her child…
I think you’re the cat’s pajamas Dorv, but I’ve got to pull Mother Rank on you.
The Island in dangerous. The mortality rate is beyond scary. If I put myself in the same scenerio, Cute, itty bitty at home, or going after possibly dead husband on dangerous maybe never-come-back island, I’m always gonna pick the itty bitty.
Ask the moms around you who’d they’d save from the burning building: Baby or Husband ? They’ll laugh at you because there’s no decision to make. Baby comes first. Even when there’s an uncommon love involved. My beloved husband knows where he stands ;)
Can I get an amen, ladies?
Kids are wonderful, but if you got married with traditional vows, you promised to forsake all others (including them) before your husband. Just sayin’.
Spoken like a man! ;)
But seriously, my definition of forsaking all others is different than yours. I did promise to obey and the prime directive from my husband is take care of the kids. The fruit of the union must be protected.
But Ji Yeon isn’t actually in any danger. Last we saw her she was being cared for by Sun’s mother, and considering that Sun’s parents are wealthy, they’d probably be able to give her a better life than the son of a fisherman could do alone…
…And seriously, did you really see Jin going back to South Korea alone to retrieve Ji Yeon and explaining to Sun’s father about his daughter having gone off to an island to find him and losing her life in the process? How long would it have been before Jin wound up in a ditch somewhere with a bullet in his head courtesy of one of old man Paik’s goons? At least this way the couple died together. :)
I’m sorry but it fealt fake. All these years people have been dropping left and right and now they suddenly cry over Jin and Sun?
To me, it seemed that Jack cried more because of stress.
And why did they get shot in the first place? Locke’s invincible, how come he had to hide in the first place?
The more I think of it: this whole episode was a giant pile of dung. Absolutely ridiculous and unnecessary.
Oh and while I’m at it: Kate left Aaron as well to get back to the island, not even knowing if his mother was still alive.
Like I said, all pretty moronic.
Perhaps you should stop watching then. I would hate for you to have to suffer through the final three moronic episodes. ;o)
When has Hurley lost such a close friend as Jin before? He was psychologically damaged when he lost Charlie and Libby, sure, but he worked with Jin in Dharma for THREE YEARS. You can really get to know someone in that time (see Sawyer and Juliet), and it doesn’t surprise me at all that this was what got to him. Similarly, Kate was always very close with Sun, having been one of the first to know she could speak English. This was the first time since Season Three (I believe) that we’ve lost someone who has been around from the very beginning, and not just one of them died but three. Totally makes sense to me that this would cause such an emotional reaction for the few remaining survivors compared to other deaths.
I agree with you Adam (expect for the Hurley and Jin part — Hurley wasn’t in 1977 with them all that time, he came back to the island with Jack and co).
I think a lot of the emotion had to do with the situation. They lost a bunch of their friends, but at the same time, they themselves were in mortal danger. I think there’s definitely some survivor’s remorse there.
In the case of Charlie, it wasn’t as if they could have saved him, they weren’t down there with him except for Desmond.
I think these deaths were so devastating because they were in the midst of the chaos and could have easily died. The situation has become so much more dire than before. Almost any hope of leaving the island is gone for the remaining Losties.
I understand the emotion.
Also, it seems silly to discount anything that happens in the “main” timeline considering that’s what the show has spent the majority of its time focusing on. Obviously what’s happening with Jack, Jacob, and Smokey on the island is important, and I think the death of characters there should be equally so. The alternate timeline characters aren’t the same people we’ve come to know and grown attached to. This is the story we’ve been dealing with for six years, bud. To decide it’s pointless now kind of discounts the entire show (which is your right to do, I guess, but I don’t know if you ought to be spreading that mess around).
D’oh, you’re completely right Bob. Not three years. (Adam is imperfect.) How long were Hurley, Jack, Sayid, and Kate in the ’70s for, anyway?
The lostpedia timeline (https://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline:Post-return) says 4 days.
Lostpedia is an amazing resource — so much time has been put into it. It’s great.
“I’m sorry but it fealt fake. All these years people have been dropping left and right and now they suddenly cry over Jin and Sun?”
– Yes, because they’ve known longer and been through more with Jin, Sun, and Sayid than they have almost any of the other characters who’ve died in recent seasons. How many deceased characters beyond Charlie did they have any lengthy amicable connection with?
“And why did they get shot in the first place? Locke’s invincible, how come he had to hide in the first place?”
– Kate was the only one who got shot…and supposedly she’s no longer a candidate.
– If I’m remembering correctly: They hid because they were trying to commandeer the sub by stealth. It was Sawyer who was leading the charge and he orchestrated it this way because he wanted to keep Smokey behind as to prevent him from getting on the sub. We learned in the episode that Smokey let Sawyer have his way because he in turn was running his own manipulation, never having any intention of getting on the sub.
“Kate left Aaron as well to get back to the island, not even knowing if his mother was still alive.”
– Kate left Aaron with his grandmother (Claire’s mother). In part she felt like she shouldn’t be the one raising him, but she also felt she had to make an attempt to find Claire since they’d never confirmed that she was dead (and we’ve seen that she is alive). Even if Kate couldn’t find Claire or return from the island, she at least left Aaron in a situation where he’d be raised by an actual biological relative.
the story makes a lot of sense now.
the last person standing becomes the island’s guardian, like Jacob.
thus, Locke has to kill all the candidates at once. If he even spares one person, then that person becomes the island’s Jacob.
That is why he ditched the plan to put everyone on the airplane. Because Jack had already decided and told everyone he would not board the plane and was hence staying on the island.
Thus, Locke would have killed everyone on the plane, but Jack would still be alive. and thus Jack would instantly become the island’s guardian and Locke would be permanently trapped on the island.
capisce?
So what happened during the last 3 minutes of the show? I had to DVR it and it ran a little late apparently. Last thing I saw was Kate and Hurley finding Jack and Sawyer on the beach.
CRD, here is the link to lostpedia’s detailed synopsis of the episode:
https://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_candidate
As well as the transcript (which is incomplete as I post this):
https://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Candidate_transcript
Thanks Bob. I did manage to catch it on Hulu. I didn’t know you could fast forward through the show there. I figured they’d make you sit through the whole thing so you could watch the commercials (like ABC On Demand does). Thanks for the info!
And then there is the battle for most stupid survivor. As Sawyer and Jack go head to head, I have to put Sawyer in the lead. Sure, Jack was being a dolt when he was convinced that the C4 wasn’t going to do anything. At least Sawyer was smart enough to dismiss Jack’s misplaced faith in the island.
Jack has already had previous experience with this situation. Remember the dynamite on the Black Rock? Considering his experiences on the island – black smoke, the presence of Anthony Cooper, the time traveling, etc., one would say that Sawyer WASN’T smart enough to dismiss Jack’s faith in the island. And he knows that Juliet believe that the Jughead detonation had worked, thanks to Miles.
Sawyer allowed his grief for Juliet to dump all of the blame for her death on Jack’s shoulders. And this lingering grief and anger led him to distrust Jack . . . an act that led to Sayid, Jin, Sun and possibly Frank’s death.