There have been a couple small details that have been bugging me about last week’s episode of Lost.
The show’s writers are very clever and most certainly detail oriented, so I don’t think it was oversight that Kate’s name wasn’t on the big wall o’ names in Jacob’s cave on the island. While I was watching the episode the first time through, the flashes of names were so brief that I figured they just didn’t show Kate’s. After giving it some more thought, I realized that each of the other 815ers were written on the wall and were associated with one of Hurley’s numbers (4 8 15 16 23 42). There are only six numbers, however, and they were all accounted for on the wall, without including Kate. The question now becomes: what does this mean?
The first thing that came to mind was that only men were eligible to become “candidates.” I quickly dismissed this thought, however, because Smokey made it a point to say that he didn’t know if the Kwon that was written on the wall was Jin or Sun. Further, the fine folks at Lostpedia put together a list of all the names that were on the wall and a lot of them belonged to women (including Juliet, Shannon, and Charlotte, presumably).
So where is Kate? We saw in the season finale last season that she was visited by Jacob, just as the other candidates were. What makes her different from the others? Certainly her past is no more shady than Sawyer’s or Sayid’s. I’m curious if there is something else at play. Does she have a different role to play in everything? Maybe she will be key in determining the appropriate candidate, but is not eligible herself.
The other question that arose during the episode came in the alternate timeline. I’m getting the sense that there is a lot more going on in that timeline than we realize at this point. Locke is still paralyzed, but I am willing to bet that his father had nothing to do with it. The evidence is there. What really sealed the deal for me is when Helen was talking to Locke about eloping and said that they should grab her parents and “his father,” and have a quick ceremony. Given the history that Locke had with his dad in the first timeline, this certainly doesn’t seem like a reasonable suggestion. The mere fact that Helen and John are still together is further proof. Their break up in the original timeline was due to all the strife between Locke and his dad. Plus, there’s that picture up there.
This all brings up an interesting point. Back during Desmond’s time traveling days, his visit with Mrs. Hawking indicated that the universe would self-correct. I think that’s exactly what we are seeing. Locke’s father may not have pushed him out a window and paralyzed him, but something happened. It’s clearly Locke’s destiny to end up in that wheelchair. What else has changed? We’ve seen that Hurley is in a much better place than in the original timeline, with all the lottery winnings and none of the bad luck. It’s going to be very interesting seeing how this new timeline is different, and what events in the lives of these characters were predestined and which were not.
Clacked by Bob Degon
on Feb 22, 2010 @ 10:00 EST5EDT
Yes, the Locke story is intriguing with all of the father stuff especially since we saw the fall from the window in the “previously on Lost” segment at the beginning but we only saw that part of it, not how he ended up going through the window. No idea why Kate’s name wasn’t on the wall but I’m sure it wasn’t an oversight.
And speaking of fathers, if the universe corrected itself why is Jack’s father still dead? Or is he???
One of the Kwons isn’t on the wall then either.
All it means is that the person isn’t eligible for becoming the next protector of the island. Like in staying there forever. I think that’s good news for Aaron.
Oh and to enter broken-record mode again: when Donnie died, everything was better for the rest of the people on the movie as well.
*POST AUTHOR*
You don’t think there’s any more to it than that? I find it peculiar that everyone else was on the wall except for Kate. There has to be more significance there, imo.
As I mentioned in the write-up for that episode, “Kwon” could easily refer to both Jin AND Sun. That would be in line with the philosophic duality we’ve seen the writers use before.
Michael and Walt, Mr. Eko, Ana Lucia, Desmond, Miles, Richard Alpert, (need I go on?) aren’t on there either. I mean there are only six numbers (4, 8, 15, 16, 23 and 42), doesn’t that mean that you simply can’t number all the main characters this way or the other?
I _really_ don’t think it’s a hint for anything.
*POST AUTHOR*
Michael, Ecko, and Ana Lucia are dead. It’s clear that Alpert plays another important role on the island, and Miles’s name was on the wall, but crossed out.
I think that it’s important that Kate is the only main character on the island right now who’s not on the wall, though Lapidus may not have been on there either. I hesitate to call him a main character, though.
I think we’re going to see that it means something significant, but I’ve been wrong before when it comes to Lost. :o)
Pfft Michael is just as deas as Jin was. I didn’t see him ripped apart, so he’s not dead.
Ok ok he’s dead I accept that too and mourn The Unusuals ^^;
Anywho, Walt’s still not dead, just off the island. Missed miles because I looked for the wrong name *grr*
But again – there are only 6 numbers and 7 main leads. I just listed the other people because they weren’t mentioned either (ok some were). You just can’t tell me when they started writing the script Cuse/Lindelof had the candidate system in mind, the 6 numbers and thought “Kate won’t get one, she’s the devil’s advocate” or whatever.
Sorry. They might add references to a ton of sh*t everywhere but you just can’t tell me they were that thought-out from the beginning. They might be, but I doubt it.
I mean this is a problem of giving answers. Once you give them, people tend to analyze the answer and start to ask more questions. I mean what’s the symbolism of Desmond discharging the energy by entering THOSE numbers into the computer, and failing to do so lands the losties on the island? I mean… seriously. It’s all just bogus. I don’t think Darlton came up with the whole show on the fly, but this “answer” just looks like… you know… “Carlton, we have to assign the numbers to SOMETHING” – “Dude, I know, but what the hell CAN we do with them” – “Let’s just number the people viewers liked most”.
This way or the other, I don’t really think it matters. So Kate doesn’t have a number.
Don’t you think this way or the other something very important is going to happen that surrounds Kate? And Jack. And Hurnley. And Sawyer…
We’d better wonder who’ll be the new protector, and if there’s going to be one at all.
Like I said: somebody’s going to off himserlf/herself and the Island and the whole timeline will go poof. I guess Sawyer will be it, or maybe even Kate, who knows, who cares. I guess the person will accept the role as protector, and then destroy the island. Just like the end of LotR with Gollum “taking care” of the ring…
We have drastically differing thoughts here, but that’s half the fun of Lost!
To Adam’s point, there are many themes on this show, duality being one of them. Another is fate and coincidence. So… I don’t necessarily see the numbers on the wall and the numbers being entered into the computer as being linked on some higher level, but instead are just another instance of unbelievable coincidence, just like the numbers hitting in the lottery.
Then again, if you played any of the first ARG that the show ran, you learned about the Valenzetti equation, which is supposedly what the Dharma initiative was researching. It was some equation that could predict the end of the world. The numbers were supposedly constants within the equation and the DI was working to alter them. So, perhaps the six numbers/six survivors from 815 represent the constants in that equation and will play a huge role in “the end of the world.”
My only real point here, Sebastian, is that I don’t think it was an oversight that Kate wasn’t on the wall. She wasn’t on there for a very specific reason, and I think we’ll find out as the series plays out what that is. Maybe Aaron is the real candidate, and Kate has to act as his mother? Not too likely because the kid isn’t on the island, but it could be something like that.
And I don’t think they’ll go for the Donnie Darko ending if for no other reason than DD already used it.
I don’t have the slightest problem with your take on things. All I’m saying is this: if Kate wouldn’t be the one without a number it would be somebody else.
Can’t wait for your take on who will be the next protector of the island then. It won’t be Kate. Who will it be. And what will be her role in all this. Tune in next time on “Lost”
*snicker*
I mean there’s a reason why all the others have a number as well. There’s a reason why Kate doesn’t have one. But I have to say it’s funny you say it doesn’t matter that Walt and Michael both don’t have a number (at all!) – the boy was supposed to be able to alter reality in his flashback episode and now he’s just dismissed like that just because both actors either chose to leave the show (Perinneau) or have a growth spurt. AAA also chose not to stay on the show for longer than his initial contract when they offered him a three season stint and he doesn’t have a number either.
Sure the whole story will play out a certain way but to me all this number shenanigans just looks as if “Lost” is a room on “The Sims” where the creators tend to use the same skin for everything… the clothes, the chairs, the door… and it all means something. It all becomes a self-fulfilling prohecy. The authors say “Yes we have a plan” and suddenly the avid fans and followers of the Lost cult see symbolism in everything (this isn’t directed at you but at the easter-egg hunters).
I mean last week Oreo said something about Psalm 23.
Michael Jordan wore the 23! I think it all just means that the authors are avid Chicaco Bulls fans ;-)
Well, the number 23 ties directly fnord into the Law of Fives, anyway, so it had to appear on this show.
I feel like Walt’s story has been played out though, even if most of it was off screen. The Others already took him and tested him and let him go. Obviously they were convinced that he was not a viable candidate. Certainly he’s got something special, but I’m not sure if it’s important to the end game.
I don’t understand why there’s all the hate for the easter eggs. That’s half the fun for me. To think that the writers new every detail of the story from day one is crazy, but I trust that from early on they knew the bigger story that they wanted to tell. Why would they lie about this? My enjoyment of the show certainly wouldn’t be diminished any if they said they were making it up as they go along. Now, certainly the original story they had changed and evolved over time. Even if the numbers don’t mean anything in this context, it’s a fun wink and nod on the part of the writers. Nothing to get upset about.
I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss Oreo’s observation. Psalm 23 is already woven into the mythology of the show. If you recall, Ecko had it carved into his staff and one of the Ecko-centric episodes was entitled “Psalm 23.” There are many biblical references in the show. Heck, Jack’s father is named Christian Shepherd. You can’t really get more overt than that!
Small addendum: I guess we’re all on the same page concerning Richard Alpert. He was on the Black Rock, in chains. Most likely one of the former first lieutenants. Maybe Jacob was the Captain, maybe The Man in Black/Smokey was the Commander. They all survived because of the fountain of youth. Becoming Smokey was a side-effect of the fountain. Like on “Zardoz”, nobody who drank can die, so the “gods”, or better people who will stay alive forever, have mortals fight/die for them. The guy Sawyer saw was the new incarnation of Jacob, who got resurrected in a new body in a younger form. Again, like on “Zardoz”, Smokey wants to become mortal again to be able to leave the island and/or to be able to die after living on it for hundreds of years (without any entertainment).
…Except that we saw Jacob and the Man in Black watching the Black Rock head toward the island at the end of last season. ;-)
I’m figuring that Richard “being in chains” indicates that he was a slave on the ship. The Black Rock was a slaver ship.
Ah you are right damn I didn’t recognize the ship in that scene I was so focused on the conversation…
Ok Jacob and the Man in Black (here come the Men in Black… stupid name for Smokey) were there before Richard and he’s with 99% certainty a slave from that ship. Although I wonder why he’s not black then but I guess that’s just me :-)
Mutiny was something that sounded so nice in my head because then the struggle between Richard and the two immortals would have been a little bit more special. You know, Bounty style. Anyway, doesn’t matter, the rest can’t be refuted and I think I should stop guessing for a while because at a certain point I’m becoming a fortune teller who just babbles so many theories that he can’t be proven wrong anymore because he covered everything ^^;
By the way why isn’t nesting allowed anymore? I can only reply to top level posts :-/
Ok about the “hate” for easter eggs. It’s not really hate. It’s more that there’s a big picture and when I’m trying to discuss this bigger picture usually people tend to find a tiny little piece of information, go with it to the library, take every Fantasy Book available and compare that tiny piece with eeeeeeverything and then tell me there was an author back in 1950something who wrote a story that had this guy in it called Richard Alpert and that’s why this is all so special.
Ken Levin yesterday (or today) posted something about his writing of MASH with his writing partner. He said every time he reads an article about his episodes on MASH it’s funny for him to find people/journalists take them apart into tiny little bits and find double meanings. Then he says they do that on Lost, that he didn’t do that, and that he has lots and lots of fun finding these tidbits and knowing what they mean.
First of all I get that. It’s nice. It is what it is – easter eggs. Like running around in the back yard looking for eggs on easter.
But to me, who’s trying to talk about the bigger picture, it’s something else. It’s a distraction, or better, it’s weed. It is hard to find the trail when you have to chop away so much brush and that’s what the easter-eggs to me are. I don’t care if there’s a polar bear in the picture in the office of Widmore (I guess that’s what it was). Also I think that the numbers have been used so much now and in so many different variations, that they have been so watered down that it is very hard for me to believe that they are anything important anymore or better that they often enough are just put into the show to have all the avid easter-egg-hunters occupied while Cuse/Lindelof try to buy some time to come up with the rest of the story.
Case in point: Nicky and Paulo. I might be wrong but when they were introduced we didn’t have the 6 season limit set (I don’t really know I’m sorry). They were introduced as somewhat of a carbon copy of Boone and Shannon – and they bombed. Also finding out that Ben Linus was a three episode and not a five season character and that AAA (Mr. Eko) was offered a three season stint on the show and that Harold Perinneau just left because he thought he was under-utilized – I’m sorry, but it’s not that I’m angry that they “make things up while they go along” – that’s not the problem. The problem is that I really enjoy the show as a whole the way it is, but when I try to talk about and understand the mythology behind it, I so often get the feeling that the authors themselves just took names parts of storylines of certain fantasy books and threw them into the mix to give people some time to occupy their minds. I would be so extremely content just watching Kate decide for the umpteenth time between Jack and Sawyer. Really I do. I like the whole dynamic of the people on the show because they are _extremely good_ actors. But to me all those easter-eggs are like extras stealing the scene by looking directly into the camera if you know what I mean.
I mean the Dharma Logo on the shark was an error, something they put in for fun in the art department, people caught it and then Cuse/Lindelof used it again. It’s not that I’m angry they do that but it’s more like I hate it when so many people think that all and everything on the show is planned when it so clearly is not. And it’s not that I hate that but I hate those “believers” who behave like… well… cultists. Or maybe just religious people.
I mean it’s as if it’s impossible for _anythign_ to happen on this show without people thinking it means something. If it does – fine. But I think we were cheated so often on this show when it comes to things that were “intentional” that I have to admit that I’m not a believer. I’m a rational person and as such I like discussing things that are within the overall meaning of stuff. I mean I don’t dismiss the Psalm 23 reference. I just think that the meaning is absolutely zilch. I think Cuse/Lindelof thought about names for the characters, and instead of chosing names of friends and family or their pets (like Ken Levine and David Isaacs) they knew that they would put in the numbers and then they looked up Psalm 23 and chose Shepherd as the last name for Jack because of that. But now people start interpreting the _meaning_ of Psalm 23 and what it means in the storyline of Lost.
It’s as if there’s this toast and it somehow looks like Jack and people now believe it’s a sign of god and that just annoys me.
Clearly we have very different views.